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Me and tnraftguide fished the big pigeon from about 10:30 to 2:00 and then took a break and went back at from 4:00 to 8:00. We caught about 20 smallmouth and 4 of them were between 2 and 3 pounds. Wind was blowin pretty hard and there was on and off rain throughout the day. Caught most with tubes and crawfish crankbaits. All in all a pretty good day except for the fact that we got fined for not having life jackets. Didnt know you had to have life jackets just fishin out of rafts.
 

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Sorry to hear about the fine you guys got.
Sounds like you had a pretty good day on the river though. Thanks for sharing your day with us.
 

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I feel your pain. My daughter announced tonight at the last minute that she had too much homework to go to youth group so I had to drive son. With 5 minutes notice I tossed my pontoon and as much gear as I could think of into the truck so I could fish for trout while he was attending. The access is only 1 mile away from the church. When I finished fishing a warden was at the "ramp". I was confident in my legitimacy as we went through the list of requirements until he said, last but not least, "Do you have a life preserver?" My heart sank. "I'll hurry and write your ticket so you won't be late to your son", he chimed cheerfully. Then the final blow - $198. If I'm not working, I'm going to my hearing and object to that egregious amount.
 

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Jer...that sucks about the fine dude, but I'm glad you guys had a decent day fishing. Be sure and tell TNRaftguide I hate to say, "I told you so", but........







You boys will learn to listen to more stuff I say the more y'all fish with me. Like "quit using those 5" tubes for smallies!"


"Like "quit using those 5" tubes for smallies!"" - says dewserbe as he reels in a 2 pounder on a bitsy tube.... 30 seconds later, TNRaftGuide reels in a 2 1/2 pounder on a real tube.
 

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Touche. I forgot all about him swallowing that tube. I wish you hadn't reminded me. I'm so frign mad about this fine. The more I think about it the more good reasons I come up with as to why dude shouldn't have fined us. What a.
 

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I know it sucks getting fined, but just remember he has a job to do. I know it would help out more if they would get the ones that don't have license an don't abide by the creel limit. But they would have a gripe about that to. Just count it as a learning experience thats all you can do. Don't mean to sound like i am against you guys just think how much worse it would be without them.
 

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According to TWRAs website, he was doing his job. Doesnt say anything about warning tickets.......





It is the responsibility of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency to enforce and administer the provisions of the "Tennessee Boating Safety Act." Enforcement officers of the Agency are on the water to assist boaters as well as to enforce laws and to provide control when necessary. Every officer of the Agency has the authority to stop and board any vessel subject to the State Boating Act. They may issue citations or, when necessary, they may arrest, on sight, without warrant, any person they see violating any provisions of the Act
 

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Think about it, if we did truly know that it was the law to have PFD's, don't you think we would have had them? I mean, why the heck would we not just have them in the boat? It doesnt make sense. Especially since the warden knew within the first 30 seconds that I am a raft guide on that river. As a matter of fact, we were fishing in the very location of several rafting companies. There were a thousand PFD's sitting in a barn just 50 yards from where we were at the time. If we knew the law, wouldn't we have grabbed a couple of them?



I know he has a job to do and I respect him for it, and I was very respectful toward him throughout the entire process - we even shot the bull for a bit and talked fishing afterward. The point is that he could have used his own discretion. First of all, I hate to stereotype but, wait, nevermind, no I don't, stereotypes are there for a reason. Anyway, the area that we fish rarely has other fisherman out there who are "true fisherman". What I mean is they are usually ******** who are fishing for dinner, without their licsense, and leaving beer cans all over the place. This guy had to realize from the start that we were purely fisherman and we were doing everything by the book, we just simply didn't know about the PFD thing. $215 is a lot of money for a college student. I'll tell you what he did to me with that fine - he took away a fishing trip for me this coming month. Thanks dude.



By the way, I've been fishing that area for 7 years - TWRA has stopped me at least 10 times. Each time they asked me for my licsense and each time I showed them my licsense and we then went our seperate ways. Never has anyone EVER said anything to me about PFD's.
 

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Understand completly, but...If you float any river in Tennessee in any type of watercraft "tube-million dollar boat" you have to have a PFD. I got a ticket on the Caney the first time out in my toon. $140.00. But while he was writing me the ticket, I dropped a $200.00 pair of Costa Del Mar sunglasses in @ 25 ft of water. I was about to dive down and he pulled out a grab hook and got my glasses. That ticket was noting then, he just saved me 200 bucks. I heard last night that a friends uncle got a $190.00 ticket on Douglas yesterday for not having a pin in his fire ext. It sucks that you got the ticket, just add it to your lessons learned.....
 

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I agree Completely with you about a Warning, I to got Busted for no PFD on my Jon Boat, cost me over $200 as Well. But I have now read the Entire Boating Handbook, and Now comply with everything in there. if I would have gotten a Warning, I would have never read the Rules but the Fine forced me too and I am 100% in Compliance, so it won't happen again. Just Chalk it up to a learning experience.



Here is what it list for on the TWRA WEB site:



Boating Equipment



"Coast Guard approved equipment" is equipment which has been approved by the Commandant of the U. S. Coast Guard and has been determined to be in compliance with U. S. Coast Guard specifications and regulations relating to the material, construction and performance of such equipment.



Personal Flotation Devices



All children 12 years of age and younger are required to wear a Coast Guard approved PFD while on the open deck of a recreational boat except when anchored, moored, or aground. There are four basic things you should keep in mind about your personal flotation devices.



First, you must have one wearable device of the appropriate size on board for each person in the boat or each person being towed. (This applies to rowboats, sailboats, canoes and rafts as well as motorboats.)



Second, each device must be kept readily accessible. They should not be hidden below deck or stored in plastic bags. They should be worn or at least be close at hand where they can be reached quickly in an emergency.



Third, each device must be Coast Guard approved and bear the approvalstamp and number.



Fourth, each device must be in good condition and be of the appropriate size for the person intended to wear it. The straps must be firmly affixed, there should be no rips, tears or holes which will affect the operating efficiency of the device, and there should be no leaks in the plastic bags containing the flotation material (this can be checked by squeezing each bag and listening for escaping air.)



State and Federal Flotation Device Regulations



All boats, including canoes and kayaks, must be equipped with one wearable personal flotation device for each person on board or for each person being towed on water skis, etc.

Boats 16 feet in length or over must also be equipped with one Type IV (throwable) PFD per boat in case someone falls overboard.

Inflatable Flotation Devices: There are a wide variety of inflatable life jackets available. To be accepted as one of the required life jackets on board, the device must have a Coast Guard approval stamp on it. If it is approved as a Type V, it must be worn to be accepted. Inflatable devices of any kind are not acceptable for persons less than 16 years old or for personal watercraft operation.



Ski Belts: These are not on the approved list of flotation devices and are not recommended for your safety. A ski belt may not be counted as one of the required pieces of equipment on board any boat. A ski belt may be worn while skiing but an approved flotation device for the skier must be on the towing boat.



Personal Flotation Devices (PFD) are classified by "Types" indicated below:



Type I: Has the greatest required buoyancy and is designed to turn most unconscious persons in the water from a face down position to a vertical or slightly backward position. The Type I PFD provides the greatest protection to its wearer and is most effective for all waters.



Type II: A wearable device designed to turn its wearer in a vertical or slightly backward position in the water. The turning action is not as pronounced as with a Type I, and the device will not turn as many persons under the same conditions as the Type I.



Type III: A wearable device designed so the wearers can place themselves in a vertical or slightly backward position. While the Type III has the same buoyancy as the Type II PFD, it has a little or no turning ability. A Type III comes in a variety of styles, colors and sizes. Many are designed to be particularly useful when water skiing, sailing, hunting, fishing or engaging in other water sports. Several of this type will also provide increased hypothermia protection.



Type IV: A device designed to be thrown to a person in the water and grasped and held by the user until rescued. It is not designed to be worn. The most common Type IV devices are a buoyant cushion and a ring buoy.



Type V: Any PFD approved for restricted use. Approved flotation devices which are partially or totally inflatable must be worn to be accepted as a legal device.



Acceptable flotation devices must meet the following conditions:



They must bear the Coast Guard approved label

They must be in good and serviceable condition

They must be an appropriate size for the person who intends to wear it

Wearable PFDs must be readily accessible

Throwable devices must be immediately available for use.



Fire Extinguishers



Fire Extinguishers must be carried on all motorboats which have any of the following conditions:



Boats are 26 feet or longer, transport passengers for hire, have one or more of the following:



Inboard engines

Closed compartments under thwarts and seats where portable fuel tanks may be stored

Double bottoms not sealed to the hull or which are not completely filled with flotation material

Closed living spaces

Closed storage compartments where combustible or flammable material is placed

Permanently installed fuel tanks. These are defined as:



Tanks which require the removal of screws or bolts to remove them from the boat

Tanks that when filled cannot be easily or readily handled by one person on board

Each fire extinguisher is classified by letter and Roman numeral according to the type of fire it will extinguish, and the size of the extinguisher. The "letter" indicates the Type of fire:

A - Fires of ordinary combustible materials

B - Gasoline, oil and grease fires

C - Electrical fires

Extinguishers approved for motorboats are hand portable, of either B-I or B-II classification for gasoline, oil and grease fires.



Coast Guard Classes

U. L. Listing

Foam (gallons)

Carbon Dioxide (lbs.)

Dry Chemicals (lbs.)

Halon (lbs.) B-I

5B

1-1/4

4

2

2-1/2



B-II

6B

2-1/2

15

10





Dry chemical fire extinguishers without gauges or indicating devices must be weighed and tagged every six months.



Check extinguishers regularly to be sure that gauges are free and showing fully charged and nozzle is clear.



Number of Fire Extinguishers Needed:



Vessels under 26 feet in length: If the boat meets any of the conditions which require an extinguisher, then a minimum of one B-I extinguisher must be on board.

Vessels 26 feet to under 40 feet in length: one B-II or two B-I extinguishers are required.

Vessels 40 feet to under 65 feet in length: Three B-I or one B-II and one B-I extinguisher are required.

NOTE: A permanently installed fire extinguisher in an engine compartment may be substituted for one B-I extinguisher on any class of vessel.



NOTE: Read labels on fire extinguishers; the extinguisher must say U. S. Coast Guard approved or U. L. listed for marine use.



Flame Arresters



Inboard mounted gasoline engines installed in a motorboat or motor vessel after April 25, 1940, must have a flame arrester fitted to the carburetor for backfire flame control.



Exceptions:



A vessel which has an attachment to the carburetor, or has the engine located so that flames caused by engine backfires, will be dispersed outside the vessel so neither the vessel nor the persons on board are endangered.

A vessel whose air and fuel intake system bears a Coast Guard approved label stating that such a system is safe without a flame arrester.

Ventilation



Vessels with closed gasoline engine compartments must be ventilated. Boats built after July 31, 1980, must be ventilated by a powered exhaust blower system. Boats built before that date must have at least one intake and one exhaust duct fitted with cowls for the removal of explosive fumes. The intake duct should be vented from outside the boat to midway of the compartment or to a level below the carburetor air intake. The exhaust duct should be vented from the lower portion of the engine compartment to the outside of the boat.



Vessels with enclosed fuel tank compartments must be ventilated like the description above. An exception is made if the boat meets the following requirements:



Built after July 31, 1978.

Electrical components within the compartment are ignition proofed.

The tank is vented to the outside of the boat.

Sound Signaling Devices



Vessels less than 39 feet 4 inches (12 meters) are not specifically required to carry a whistle, horn or bell but they must have some means of making an "efficient sound signal."

Vessels over 39 feet 4 inches (12 meters) are required to carry a bell and a powered whistle or horn.

Visual Distress Signals



Visual distress signals are not required for boaters using Tennessee waters. They are desirable to have on any boat but are only required for boats using coastal waters and the Great Lakes. Boaters using those waters should obtain the exact requirements based on the length of their boat and whether they will be operating at night.



Marine Sanitation Devices



Marine sanitation device laws apply to boats with installed heads (commodes). Sanitation devices are classified by types. Types I & II treat sewage and then discharge it into the water. A Type III is a holding tank which retains the waste until it is pumped out at a marina or other facility. The following is a summary of the M.S.D. laws:



Discharging untreated sewage into public water is prohibited. It is illegal to use a vessel which is capable of discharging untreated sewage.

Public waters are classified as either discharge (capable of accepting treated sewage) or no discharge (waste must be retained in a holding tank until properly removed).

Discharge into public waters is restricted to a Type I or II U.S. Coast Guard approved marine sanitation device on those waters classified as discharge.

Marinas and docks operating on public water must provide a sewage removal service.

Discharge Reservoirs

Barkley

Caulderwood

Cheatham

Chickamauga

Cordell Hull

Cumberland River

Ft. Loudon

Kentucky

McKellar

Melton Hill

Mississippi River

Nickajack

Old Hickory

Pickwick

Reelfoot

South Holston

Tellico

Tennesseee River

Watts Barr

No Discharge Reservoirs

Beech River Lakes

Boone

Center Hill

Cherokee

Chilhowee

Dale Hollow

Douglas

Ft. Patrick Henry

Great Falls

J. Percy Priest

Lake Graham

Nolichucky

Normandy

Norris

Ocoee 1,2,3

Tims Ford

Watauga

Wilbur

Woods



Marine Pollution Placards



Federal law requires that all vessels 26 feet and over must display one or more pollution placards (signs) in a prominent location so that it can be read by the crew and passengers.



The placard must:



Be at least 9" wide x 4" high.

State that discharge of plastic or garbage mixed with plastic into any waters is prohibited.

State that discharge of all garbage is prohibited in the navigable waters of the United States and, in all other waters, within three nautical miles of the nearest land.
 

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Understand completly, but...If you float any river in Tennessee in any type of watercraft "tube-million dollar boat" you have to have a PFD. I got a ticket on the Caney the first time out in my toon. $140.00. But while he was writing me the ticket, I dropped a $200.00 pair of Costa Del Mar sunglasses in @ 25 ft of water. I was about to dive down and he pulled out a grab hook and got my glasses. That ticket was noting then, he just saved me 200 bucks. I heard last night that a friends uncle got a $190.00 ticket on Douglas yesterday for not having a pin in his fire ext. It sucks that you got the ticket, just add it to your lessons learned.....


So did you know you had to have a PFD? And did your friend's uncle know to have a pin in his fire ext? If you didn't know, don't you think if he would have just said, "hey you know it's a $140-$300 (or whatever) fine if you don't have a PFD?" then you would ALWAYS have one with you from then on? I mean it's the fact that you could get fined, not the fact that you DO get fined.



If you're doing 80mph in a 55mph zone, and there are speed limits signs, then tough crap. But how am I supposed to know this? When I bought my liscense at Wal-Mart they didn't go over the rules with me. I knew you had to have PFD's in a motorized boat, but I would never had dreamed you had to have it just floating around in a raft, where the water never gets above 8 ft deep. What the heck is gonna happen to you? A huge carp gonna come up and capsize the boat? And again, this goes back to this SPECIFIC SITUATION because I understand if we would have been floating the upper section which is class 4 water (and I wish we would have because then we would have had our PFD's).
 

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i guess it's easy to "just chalk it up as a loss" if you're making more than $10 an hour at a part time job while in college. nobody's going to convince me that this guy couldn't have just warned us. I agree with the rules, I just think if you don't know them, how can you be punished?
 

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Yes I told him I was a raft guide. He just said, "then you should know better" - and that made no sense to me. When I passed my "test" 5 years ago to become a raft guide, I dang sure didn't have to know anything about fishing and the rules.



Which reminds me, Snoot, if that's the case, then heck, they outa just require folks to pass a test in order to get their fishing liscense.
 

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Yes I told him I was a raft guide. He just said, "then you should know better" - and that made no sense to me. When I passed my "test" 5 years ago to become a raft guide, I dang sure didn't have to know anything about fishing and the rules.


Not to be rude or anything, But it couldn't have been much of a "test" if they never went over any rules mandated by TWRA. I would imagine that if you have to take a test to be a guide, that the number one rule implied should be the safety of your passengers....which should include Life preservers.
 

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Yes I told him I was a raft guide. He just said, "then you should know better" - and that made no sense to me. When I passed my "test" 5 years ago to become a raft guide, I dang sure didn't have to know anything about fishing and the rules.
No you didn't have to know the Rules about fishing, but you should have altleast been taught the Rules of Boating, as if you are Certified Guide you should know all the Rule of the Water as it pertains to your vessel. as you are taking other peoples lives into your hands, including your own. and you will get a ticket as the Warden said: "then you should know better" because you are a Guide.
 
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